AR/ Shotgun question

[DD_Dinosaur]

I know shotguns have to be a certain length to be legal and with AR's under a certain length you can not use a stock. My question.... is it legal to have a 10" shotgun upper on an AR platform with a brace? Or a 7"?

 

[Dfalt]

With a brace, currently yes. Lots of people add braces to Shockwaves and the other derivatives so the same thing could apply for a shotgun AR upper. The main difference with barrel length is that an SBR is under 16 inches with a stock, but an SBS is under 18 inches with a stock.

 

[DD_Dinosaur]

With a brace, currently yes. Lots of people add braces to Shockwaves and the other derivatives so the same thing could apply for a shotgun AR upper. The main difference with barrel length is that an SBR is under 16 inches with a stock, but an SBS is under 18 inches with a stock.

10-4. Just was curious. I couldn't find anything upon my searching so figured I would ask here. Just seemed like a grey area to me Thanks bud

 

[Trs]

Shockwave is not classified as a shotgun, it's classified as a " non-nfa item" there is an easy way to know, see if a company sells it. You might notice that no companies sell an AR12 style pistol, closest thing in a shot gun would be bullpup style shot gun. The determining factor is how was it originally sold, sold as a shockwave-legal, make you own from a shotgun- illegal.

 

[DD_Dinosaur]

Shockwave is not classified as a shotgun, it's classified as a " non-nfa item" there is an easy way to know, see if a company sells it. You might notice that no companies sell an AR12 style pistol, closest thing in a shot gun would be bullpup style shot gun. The determining factor is how was it originally sold, sold as a shockwave-legal, make you own from a shotgun- illegal.

Yea I've noticed no one sells short shotgun uppers. I was just thinking of having a barrel cut down on one but didn't want to get in any trouble for having one.

What I don't understand is if it's on the AR platform and it's perfectly legal to have a pistol version of an AR with a brace no matter the caliber why would it change when going to a shotgun caliber?

 

[Trs]

Yea I've noticed no one sells short shotgun uppers. I was just thinking of having a barrel cut down on one but didn't want to get in any trouble for having one.

What I don't understand is if it's on the AR platform and it's perfectly legal to have a pistol version of an AR with a brace no matter the caliber why would it change when going to a shotgun caliber?

It's all in the definition, rifle, pistol, shotgun, SBR, SBS, etc.. are all legal definitions. Same way a shockwave is not a shotgun. Why are some AR lowers marked 5.56 pistol, some 5.56, and most multi caliber? Make no mistake, cut a shotgun barrel and you have crossed the line, but hey it's all good untill Mr Alphabet gets the house, the vehicles, and everything else. Then the conversation starts with " So Mr Domestic Terrorist, tell us about everyone involved in manufacturing these things"

 

[Dfalt]

Yea I've noticed no one sells short shotgun uppers. I was just thinking of having a barrel cut down on one but didn't want to get in any trouble for having one.

What I don't understand is if it's on the AR platform and it's perfectly legal to have a pistol version of an AR with a brace no matter the caliber why would it change when going to a shotgun caliber?

It wouldn't. The reason the Shockwave isn't legally considered a shotgun is because it comes from the manufacturer with a barrel under 18 inches and no stock. Since that doesn't fit the legal definition for a shotgun it falls into the catch-all legal term "firearm" (there are others types of guns that fit into this category too, like braced ARs with an overall length over 26 inches) . If you put a shotgun upper on a braced AR lower you'd accomplish the same thing since the brace legally speaking isn't a stock. I have seen .410 uppers for ARs but the real reason nobody makes an AR pistol shotgun is because you'd have to design a unique lower to accommodate anything more than .410 which would put it in a really niche market, not because a manufacturer making an AR pistol styled shotgun would be magically illegal

 

[Dfalt]

**slight addition** if you were to do it keep the overall length over 26 inches and you'd be fine.

 

[Trs]

real reason nobody makes an AR pistol shotgun is because you'd have to design a unique lower to accommodate anything more than .410 which would put it in a really niche market, not because a manufacturer making an AR pistol styled shotgun would be magically illegal

Seems like it it was kosher somebody would be making AR type 12 gauge pistols, there are 20 plus brands of AR style 18 inch or longer 12 gauge shotguns most of them using the AR12 name or some variation of it. That would seem to indicate the existence of an AR style lower for 12 gauge. Or maybe I'm confused, but I have seen bullpup 12 gauges with shorter than 18, but they are listed as NFA items (SBS)

 

[Dfalt]

Easiest way to explain it is this:
Shotgun with a stock and barrel under 18 inches = SBS, legally requires a stamp

Shotgun without a stock with an overall length less than 26 inches = AOW, legally requires a stamp

shotgun without a stock and over 26 inches in overall length = not legally a shotgun, consider a "firearm" which are not NFA items

As long as you stick to not ever having had a stock and an overall length of over 26 inches, an AR style shotgun with a barrel under 18 inches would be legal without a stamp. As for why manufacturers aren't making any like this I can't say for sure but my guess would be that they don't believe they would sell well enough to be worth making since they'd be inaccurate, unreliable, and unpleasant to shoot (not to mention they'd have to make a special lower for anything bigger than .410)

 

[DD_Dinosaur]

I appreciate it yall

 

[Trs]

You do realize the AR12 is 12 gauge right!! And it has a lower, real easy guidelines buy a shockwave, ok. Make a shockwave bad, real bad as some rocket scientists in worth county found out. Not sure a braced AR12 pistol would be much different than a shockwave to shoot. If they could get approval to classify an AR12 style pistol as a "non NFA" item like the shockwave there would be a ton of them.